“LLOYDS BANK…Just sadly seen one of their ads. All these years on and after the taxpayer having bailed these scumbags out, I still cannot escape my hatred for this institution who played a large part in our destiny.”
Leaving aside that the taxpayer didn’t bail out Lloyds Bank – that was HBOS and the Government shafted Lloyds by pushing them into taking over that bank amid the financial crisis, the word that really jumped out in that sentence is the last one.
Did he start writing demise but just couldn’t bring himself to type it?
Regardless there seems to be quite a lot of residue anger among their support directed at Lloyds Bank. We’ll have a look at this in a moment but it’s worth noting that the CLUB never banked with Lloyds, it was the HOLDING COMPANY that OPERATED the club that did, so the following merely illustrates how attached they all were to that Holding Company that operated the club…
Lloyds Bank…“they are no different to a bunch of guys wearing a mask and carrying shotguns bunch of thieving ch****.”
Lloyds Bank…“Can’t blame the bank for calling in the debt when they realised it was getting out of control, not just at Gers but within the Murray Group. It was David Murray who got Gers into that position and it was David Murray who sold the Club to the conman. Like many Gers fans, your indignation is misplaced.”
Lloyds Bank…“Away tae feck. Debt out of control? That is complete and utter garbage. Our debt was reducing year on year as we complied with the bank and sold players and brought down the wage bill. But somehow around 2010 this wasn’t enough and the debt had to be paid back in full, and conveniently along comes Craig Whyte with his wealth off the radar and exempliary credit history to save the day eh!”
Lloyds Bank…“The Rangers debt was called in due to the collapsing Murray empire.”
Lloyds Bank…“The debt had come down from £70m to £18m in about 6 years and there was an agreement in place to reduce that further. Turnover was over £60m. We were 3 in a row champions with our main competition in a complete mess at the time. We won the 2009/10 title without buying a single player. Players such as Naismith, Jelavic and Davis were being valued at £10m at the time. The debt to Lloyds was being managed just fine.”
Lloyds Bank…David Murray, ‘he’s the real villian. No EBT’s=no HMRC case. Our debt was manageable, but not if HMRC won initial case. Fans target Lloyds,Fullerton, Reid etc, but Murray killed us.”
Lloyds Bank…“Yeah yeah Murray is to blame yada yada.
The guy used EBTs which were widely used at the time and were completely legal.
That b@st@rd Reid misused his political position to set HMRC on to us
He’s to blame.”
Lloyds Bank…“Murray put Rangers in a vulnerable position. When his company was in trouble he did what money people do. He shafted us and dodgy Dave signed a dodgy deal that could have killed Rangers. David Murray almost killed Rangers. Do not ever forget that.”
Lloyds Bank…“Completely legal? I remember the judges in the Supreme Court thought otherwise. HMRC went after us because Murray used them for 11 years when other football teams stopped quickly due to advice it was too dodgy.
“As for Reid, guys like you give w@nk material to (Celtic) fans. They love to think that we were brought down by Dr Death, Fullerton etc, when if Murray had run us successfully, we would never have been in trouble.
“As for Reid putting HMRC onto us, do you think they didn’t know about us? ‘Hello HMRC, Reid here, do you know Rangers owe you a fortune in EBT tax? ‘Do they? Thanks John, we didn’t know that.'”
Lloyds Bank…“When did Lloyds call in the debt. I know that Murray made a deal with Whyte which involved the debt being paid, and that it was. That clearly suited Murray and his business.
“However I don’t remember reading anywhere that Lloyds were threatening to petition for winding up if the debt was not paid in full instantly.”
Lloyds Bank…“We had Donald Muir on the inside ripping everything apart. Lloyds brought Murray and Whyte together.
“There won’t have been threats to Rangers on the £18m debt because there was nothing wrong with that. I’m certain there were threats to MIH who were deep in the red, to sell Rangers to Whyte or else, and Murray happily obliged in order to look after himself.”
Lloyds Bank…“He reduced debt by £50m by transferring the debt to another Murray company. When everything went tits up in 2008, SDM owed HBOS about £800m, more than his business was worth. Our debt was about £30m (went down to £18m) but the HMRC potential debt of £94m frightened LBG and they pressurised him to get rid of us because of this potential debt.
“Only a fool or a conman would buy us with this potential debt. Guess what we got ?”
Lloyds Bank…“The taxpayer never bailed them out, Brown and his government nearly killed them by forcing them to take The liabilities and corruption infested Bank of Scotland, that’s when they got involved with us due to the forced merger.”
Lloyds Bank…“Murray got into trouble, certainly, but the political power play at the time forced our downward spiral. Look no further than the Celtic men with influence in banking, SFA, and Westminster Government.
“It was a perfect storm and we were lucky to escape with our life. Make no mistake, that wasn’t supposed to happen. That was the point in time when Celtic FC went from being a mere competitor to arch enemy. Never forget and never forgive.”
Lloyds Bank…” If you think it was Lloyd’s Bank who were the major players in our demise then you are sadly deluded. That dubious honour falls squarely on David Murray and the Rangers board of the time. The 90’s and the 00’s were great years to be a Rangers fan but the spending was unsustainable with ridiculous wages paid to players but we all lapped it up at the time without thinking of the consequences.
“To blame a bank for doing something that banks do is naive at best.”
Lloyds Bank…“I remember sitting at an AGM when Murray was being asked questions about funding etc. Don’t worry he says, I’m in this for the long run, mentioned his son eventually inheriting etc etc. When I leave, that’s when you need to worry he says. Cue applause..When Murray got into trouble he bailed and let us down. We were much worse off when he left compared to when he took over bottom line, that’s the root of it all. Him dropping us like a hot spud allowed all the haters and rats to do what followed.”
Lloyds Bank…“Don’t blame, Lloyds, Green, Whyte or any of the other b@st@rds, it was chief b@st@rd David Murray who sold us down the river, 100% him.”
Lloyds Bank…“The “Celtic men with influence in Banking” if they ever existed had little or nothing to do with it. What happened was that David Murray and most of his companies including Rangers banked with Bank of Scotland and latterly HBOS who were a bank who made very risky lending decisions which was proved by their demise in the 2008 crash. Murray had his friends who were high up in BOS lending him cash hand over fist without any real control. The crucial error though was that Murray had also tied in the fate of Rangers with his own companies so if one of them fell Rangers fell as well.
“When Lloyd’s who were an extremely conservative and risk adverse lender at that time took over HBOS in 2008 they balked at all the high risk lending on the HBOS books and that included the lending to Murray’s companies. They decided to try and get rid of these debts ASAP as they were now part owned by the taxpayer and had great deal of governance to deal with. Lloyd’s decided to call his debts in and thus started the demise of Rangers because of Murray’s decisions to intertwine the clubs fate with that of his companies.
“To say that a few tims who could possibly add 2 and 2 together had an influence over a London based banks lending policy is an interesting but ultimately incorrect theory.”
Lloyds Bank…“I worked with Lloyd’s at the time and sat a couple of rows of desks down from the guys dealing with it, so had no involvement in the transactions in any way. The Murray Group was in what is known as the Business Support Unit (intensive care for businesses).
Lloyd’s a couple of years earlier amid the banking crisis had been “forced” / “talked into” by Gordon Brown and the government at the time to take over the failing banking giant. It was badged up as a great opportunity and the competition rules on market monopoly waived to allow it to happen. Lloyd’s board did not do their due diligence properly and bought a basket case (HBOS). Massive toxic debts caused by the takeover caused Lloyd’s to really tighten up and get the backbook back into some sort of order. The view from exec level was that HBOS had let many clubs “away with murder” when times were good. Now under Lloyd’s control (a much more prudent lender) and during hard times for the bank, the industry, Murray Group, Rangers and many many other businesses, they were clawing in as much as they could.
“I’m not sticking up for my ex-employer however everything they done was above board and legal. They treated Murray and Rangers the same way as every other customer. If a customer breaches loan terms, their are consequences. It doesn’t matter if the debt is reducing or not. When dealing with advances of this Calibre into the millions, their are covenants that the borrowing company have to agree. For example, they need to keep their net profit above a certain level, if they don’t, no matter if they keep repayments up, they are in breach of contract. This is a simple example. So if Murray breached the contract which he agreed with the Bank – he’s F@cked!”
Lloyds Bank…“The more people thrash about spreading the blame onto Lloyds, HMRC and ‘dark forces’, the less attaches to the real culprit.
“Murray decided to use EBTs to a far greater extent in relation to turnover than any other club. Lloyds were not prepared to take the risk that Rangers would win the EBT case.
“Murray tied the club into his business group and the £50 million devoted to removing most of the club’s debt in 2005 was simply transferred to the wider Murray empire.
“What brought matters to a head was the financial downturn in 2008 that wiped £millions off the Murray group’s assets (primarily in property). By that stage, HMRC had decided to target what they called aggressive tax avoidance within football.”
Lloyds Bank…“I hold Murray at the same level as Green, Whyte, Ashley, Somers, Stockbridge, Ahmed, Llambias, and the many other crooks that have darkened our door since 2012.
“It was a perfect storm that brought us down, with the plan all along to “nail us to the floor”. Murray opened the door and let the wolves in.”
Lloyds Bank…“They are all to blame, but to varying degrees.
“Lloyds used Rangers as leverage against Murray. Lloyds and HMRC were fed sensitive information by ‘connected’ politicians. Rangers were used as a test case by HMRC because it afforded them the convenience of little political fallout in England were an EPL club to have been pursued. Murray knew exactly who he was selling to and so did Lloyds. HMRC would’ve got wind of Whyte’s involvement in any potential deal via Lloyds and the ‘connected’ politicians. And the rest is history.
“Some would call this a conspiracy. Others would call this a series of unrelated events.”