We have received plenty of comments regarding Just an Ordinary Bhoy’s opinion piece published earlier on The Celtic Star which you can read below his article which is titled: Opinion – That Celtic Statement is both wrong and hypocritical. The other side of the debate on this matter is covered by occasional contributor Martin Leadbetter and this can be read below…
A RESPONSE TO JUST AN ORDINARY BHOY’S ARTICLE ON THE CELTIC STATEMENT…
Sorry but I couldn’t disagree more. To say you are ”disgusted and disappointed at their actions, and the overwhelming majority of the support feel the same” may reflect your view but, as other comments here and on other forums show , it will not the majority of Celtic supporters.
I, like most I suspect, have a limited understanding of the political or historical background around this – although it is clear it is complex and a deep mess. Is it not also true however that the Jews themselves must be amongst the most persecuted and oppressed group of people in history?
Those banners (who has the time to make these btw!) just look like active support of a terrorist group who murdered or kidnapped hundreds of innocent people in their homes or at a music festival. Young people dying – many of whom will be the same age as those standing under those banners at the game.
We have, for decades, had to defend supporters singing songs about the IRA and Republicism but at least there is a link there to our history and roots – although surely no-one could fully support their involvement in indiscriminate bombing and killings of innocent children. over the years. Songs like Grace – and Sean South and Soldiers Song etc – are valid nods to the history of the club and its traditional support – although around events of over 100 years ago.
Yes the Green Brigade do good things and their vocal encouragement of the team is fantastic – but they undo that with alignment to political agendas of their choice and, in imho, singing songs loudly using the word against a range of targets – Royal Family, SFA, Tories, Rangers – most recently Lazio. I am no fan of any of those entities but the ground is full of kids excited about going to watch their team play football. GB stand almost next to the group of kids encouraged into the games behind that goal. Its hateful – by definition – and sounds awful. How do parents or group leaders explain that away to the youngsters?
Celtic have employed players from all over the world including countries with current or historic human rights issues. China, Argentina, Russia, Balkans. I think many Celtic supporters as late as the 70s/80s would have had reservations about us having German, Italian or Japanese players. Can we honestly expect that the Green Brigade to a man/woman share these views on Palestine when a good number couldn’t find the place in an atlas or describe just what ‘revolution’ they are supporting with that banner.
Our club is open to all – I love it for that. I still get a buzz just walking out into the place even after 50 odd years.
I think any closet angry activist sitting in the dark making banners with political slogans to support a terrorist group – whose declared purpose is to wipe out a particular group of people (not to ‘free’ Palestine) should reflect on Nir Bitton’s passionate and honest reaction to GB actions. Nir was a decent man who served our club selflessly for years in good times and bad and made our country his family’s home.
Its my view that the Club were right to issue this statement – any fair thinking organisation would do. The fine this action will inevitably attract will far outweigh the value of any food bank collection at the ground and the money would be much better used in the inclusive charity effort this club actively supports – helping people regardless of colour, creed or ethnic category.
We have recently had to finally face up to what appear to be valid accusations around child abuse associated indirectly or directly with our club. Why do we need to provide further opportunities for others to attack the club and stain its history and reputation around the world. We should be known for our footballing achievements, our inclusivity and a welcoming good humour. Not dark acts and hatred.
Martin Leadbetter
Again your comments are welcome.
He starts by saying he has little political or historical knowledge of the issue, which is evident. He should perhaps focus on educating himself on the real situation before voicing such uneducated opinions.
The sentence “to support a terrorist group – whose declared purpose is to wipe out a particular group of people”, actually describes the zionist Israeli regime (who have made that intention clear publically on numerous occassions), more than it does the Palestinians who have taken steps in the last 10 years to reach a long term solution. It is the Israelis refuse to work towards a two state solution, whilst the international community turns a blind eye to the illegal atrocities they commit on a daily basis. There is only international and media focus when it is the other way round.
The killing and kidnapping of innocent people is disgusting and needs to stop – on both sides. There is no justification on either side. It does however only seem to be Hamas that are criticised for doing so, whilst the US, UK, EU and UN keep using the party line of “Israel’s right to defend itself”. Make no mistake, Israel are intending to kill innocent people and children, and are making no apologies for it.
Whilst I disagree with the “victory for the resistance banner”, I am so proud of Celtic fans for sticking up for the rights of Palestinians and I hope they continue to do so (in a way that doesn’t glorify terrorism)
Beheading delete this blog.
Corrected version
He starts by saying he has little political or historical knowledge of the issue, which is evident. He should perhaps focus on educating himself on the real situation before voicing such uneducated opinions.
The sentence “to support a terrorist group – whose declared purpose is to wipe out a particular group of people”, actually describes the zionist Israeli regime (who have made that intention clear publically on numerous occassions), more than it does the Palestinians who have taken steps in the last 10 years to reach a long term solution. It is the Israelis refuse to work towards a two state solution, whilst the international community turns a blind eye to the illegal atrocities they commit on a daily basis. There is only international and media focus when it is the other way round.
The killing and kidnapping of innocent people is disgusting and needs to stop – on both sides. There is no justification on either side. It does however only seem to be Hamas that are criticised for doing so, whilst the US, UK, EU and UN keep using the party line of “Israel’s right to defend itself”. Make no mistake, Israel are intending to kill innocent people and children, and are making no apologies for it.
Whilst I disagree with the “victory for the resistance banner”, I am so proud of Celtic fans for sticking up for the rights of Palestinians and I hope they continue to do so (in a way that doesn’t glorify terrorism)
Agree wholeheartedly Martin.
Two wrongs do not make a right. GB stick to supporting your team. One innocent person dead cannot be justified under any circumstances, it is somebody daughter or son. GB you are not speaking or spokesperson for all Celtic supporters.
Well said Tom, if people want to protest or support they can go to the respective embassy.
Celtic park, it’s majority of supporters and the club should not be used for political purposes.
The GB give great support to for the team but that does not give them any special treatment rights.
TBH there are probably enough people on the waiting list to allow this group to be disbanded.
Has a Irish man thankyou keep politics out of football.
Absolutely agree. It’s an embarrassment to the club and our support. These idiots should give their brain a chance. As you say, prob half of them couldnae even point out Palestine on a map if their life depended on it.
I completely agree with Martin Leadbetter. We do not know and understand enough about what goes on in Israel.
I also agree that the GB do so much good for the atmosphere inside the stadium and far reaching impact to community projects.
However, for all the good they do, they ruin it by bringing politics and pyrotechnics into the stadiums.
Every fine we receive reflects, not just on them but on the whole club. If they cannot respect the will of the club or the normal supporter, then they should be banned.
Totally on the mark here. The GB seem to think they speak for every fan.No they dont.
I stand with Palestine. Over 2 million people held in what an Israeli described as an open air prison. Subject to indiscriminate carpet bombing, land grabbing by the Zionists, genocidal hate speech from the Israeli government. I do not support Hamas, who would regard me as an apostate and would have no hesitation in ordering my imprisonment or execution by their Iranian allies. The meaning of GB banners at CP are open to a wide range of interpretations but much of the social media comment has decided to view them in a most polarising light.
Protest somewhere else. It’s a football stadium not a Provofest.
I totally agree with Mr Leadbetter comments. I would draw people’s attention to James Forrest’s piece where he quotes Dr Martin Luther King. The Palestinian issue is deep and complex. The banners on Saturday at Parkhead were misplaced and embarrassing. I can barely tolerate the songs about the IRA ( l have asked many Irish men and women who lived through the troubles and they find these songs embarrassing ) but when innocent people from both sides were brutally murdered these banners were wrong. I have always supported that the Palestinians deserve their homeland but brutal killings will not secure them a homeland as the Israeli response has demonstrated. Keep these banners out of our football. Let us support the team, surely the reason that we turn up at Celtic Park. I don’t need cheap banners at Celtic Park. I leave my politics at the door as I am sure that there is a wide ranging spectrum of political opinion but only one Celtic. Let’s support the team inside the stadium and argue our politics outside.
Yours in Celtic Gavin McCulloch.
Totally agree. They should concentrate on supporting Celtic. Only the high command organize this stuff the sheep haven’t a clue what banners are going be raised they just follow orders. The majority of Celtic fans are fed up with this.
Hail!Hail!
Well said. Could not agree more.
100% mate.That expresses what I & a lot of my mates think of green brigade. Love the singing and atmosphere you bring but not the political poison & Celtics good name getting dragged through guter. Stick to football. Hail hail 🍀
Yes spot on, this was not resistance it was terrorism pure and simple. To see Celtic supporters celebrate the murder and kidnapping of women and children (for example picture today of two little girls 3 and 5 being kidnapped) sickens me.
And what about the ordinary People of Gaza, do you not understand that HAMAS position their rockets etc in civilian areas near Schools and Hospitals to ensure that if there is retaliatory actions then innocent women and children will die as it seeks world support for HAMAS, did HAMAS ask those Palestinian families if they are willing to sacrifice their children?
Martin the GB need to go away and take their blinkers off and read the history of the area, HAMAS are not the good guys, they don’t want independence on its own, they also want the destruction of Israel.
HAMAS are in bed with those wonderful caring people of Iran, that country that constantly champions human rights for women, gays etc in the Middle East ( that’s sarcasm by the way for any of the GB reading this).
Anyone who thinks the death of of 100’s of women and children ( ON BOTH SIDES) is resistance needs help to re-join the Human Race.
F*** up Clara
Zionist bootlicker
Go tae yer room, virgin, you’re grounded .. AGAIN!
And you are a baby murderer supporter and you f up true Irish Catholic man here from belfast
Well put point, in the debate, very well said.
Where to start with this. Clickbaitery ?
Yes Martin you do appear to have a very limited understanding of this complex issue- why else would you use the term “Jews” when the issue is Israelis and Palestinians?
What evidence is there that most indeed any of GB couldn’t find Gaza on a map? Maybe you are generalising from your own experience?
Can you be a closet activist? As opposed to a closet keyboard warrior like yourself perhaps? The type of people that make and display banners, imho, are those that care passionately about something eg the escalating need for Food Banks. Fortunately for the GB and indeed the Celtic support more generally- they are not jumping on a bandwagon for attention but can demonstrate a long (and widely admired) support for Palestinians living under apartheid And before that we demonstrated against apartheid South Africa- previous generations volunteered to fight against nazi germany and abhorrent antisemitism and before that our forefathers were part of the international brigades in Spain ( hope you can find Spain on a map😊)
Elsewhere Mr Fear and Loathing on ma Blog has also tried to suggest that the “Free Palestine” banner’s reference to “the resistance “ equates to supporting Hamas. In my view this completely ignores what Palestinians have been subjected to for the last 20 years in particular. I’ll be marching in support of Palestine on Saturday ( not Hamas) and I look forward to counting the number of flags at our next home games
Hail hail
If you call yourself a Celtic FOOTBALL Club supporter, you should your the politics at the door.
You are right, we don’t understand the situation but two people who do, are Nir Bitton and Lieil Abada. I am sure they feel strongly about the subject but while they represent(ed) the club, they do not bring it to the stadium.
Please respect these guys and the club by supporting the team with the colours of our club and OUR history.
Outside the stadium, you have every right to do as you wish, but inside you have to respect the wish of the club. If you can’t do that, then don’t go in.
Couldn’t agree more Hamas does not want peace they couldn’t care about the Palestinians their leaders do not even live in Palestine none of the money sent to Palestine goes to the people but diverts to Hamas bank accounts
Oh ye with short memories, in 2014 Israelites placed patio sets on top of a hill with barbecues and watched the slaughter of people in Palestine, comments at the time were “great entertainment” better than the World Cup” Yes they thought the slaughter of innocent people was better than watching football. I did not see one MP, not one News station outraged, and no comment from the Celtic board on that one. I will never let the Celtic board dictate to me what is right and moral as they lost all rights to that when they installed a war criminal as chairman at Celtic.
What has Irish history to do with middle eastern politics?
Using them as a similar comparison remains a pretty poor excuse imo, and nothing that our club needs to be associated with.
We may have been given a famine by the brits upon our island, but we gave them Celtic football club in return, so certainly got the better return in the genocide caused within our own country.
Ireland still remains a neutral country upon such current world affairs, and the trí colour that flies proudly over Parkhead represents that also.
Irish history isn’t confined to only the IRA either, regardless of the support it received during a war they eventually won, which will be confirmed with the return of the 6 counties, which hopefully will be returned soon enough.
What is currently ongoing within the middle east is currently a world issue, where the loss of life means nothing to those involved in such a conflict.
I fail to see or understand why a shower of gobshites, believe that they have a right to use our football club to demonstrate support upon issues they know nothing about?
Had just about enough of having gobshites believing there thinking as been used as a voice for us all.
Such world issues have no place within sporting venue’s, and maybe governments need to start taking that into account before inflicting unwanted events within them?
2 wrongs have never made a right, and yet now our football club has allowed itself to be caught up within a cross fire, and of course it’s going to be used as a weapon against ourselves.
How is that seen as actually supporting our club in footballing terms?
Why are we bothered about a shower of scum and all they stand for ever catching us?
Especially when we are so capable of pressing the self destruct button ourselves?
If any of the current situation within the clubs support made any sense, then maybe I could understand the situation arisen within our own support?
As I don’t, my support will remain with a football club, and want it continue with how it was formed, without any relationship upon Irish history and middle eastern politic, as fail to see or understand how they can be looked upon as relevant within a football club, especially ours.
“it will not the majority of Celtic supporters.” (sic)
I assume this was a typo and not illiteracy on the writer’s part and his assertion is that the majority of fans are against support for the 75 year struggle of the ethnic cleansed Palestinian people.
First issue is how to define the number of Celtic fans, even just taking match going fans, how does he arrive at over 30,000 Apartheid supporters?
This seems to be trotted out every time there’s a “controversy” and it works like this. Banners are unveiled to approval and no discernable dissent at games and pubs etc after. That’s my personal observations and other fans I talk to.
Next the Record, Beeb and all the right-wing media get involved, the PLC panic and sheep like fans join in. I say that due to the clear order of events, if it was fan-led then we would see the evidence but its not there.
If there’s genuinely dissent at games to banners then there must be videos of it, so where are they?
“persecuted Jews”, “terrorist group” etc are just tropes.
The Jews were persecuted by Western Europeans, who, along with the Americans, actively supported Hitler in the 30s and put back into place the “useful” Nazis in the late 40s.
None of that was done by Palestinians, where Muslims, Jews, Christians lived in relative peace before the settler-colonisers from Western Europe arrived and ethnic-cleansed most of the indigenous people.
75 years of ethnic cleansing, occupation, war crimes, tens and probably hundreds of thousands of killings and its the oppressed who are the “terrorists”. Really? Straight out of a right-wing media lie.
The writer should reflect on Nir Biton words when he offered up a prayer when the war criminal bombers carried out previous atrocities in Gaza, killing thousands (there’s been so many, its difficult to place).
Was he offering it up for the women and children about to perish, no it was for their killers.
I do reflect on his words and all the other hypocrites, who seem to sleep easily most of the time, during the 75 year misery of the Palestinians.
If Martin knows them well enough to know that none of them can find Israel on a map then perhaps he could have a quite word with them himself? Wait? What? He doesn’t know them all well enough to know that? So he just throwing out childish insults to soothe his own anger? Any point they tried to make gets lost in that.
Oh, by the way Martin, Israel sits south of Lebanon and Syria, It’s west of Jordan and north east of Egypt, would you like me to find those on a map for you too? The British empire had an imperial mandate to control Palestine before the USA got involved and created Israel, will I got on and explain more for you? Or is that enough to show you that I personally can find it on a map? because you obviously feel geography is the gateway to discussion.
The GB have had some poorly thought out signs in the past, I don’t see the latest as one of those, It doesn’t mention any “terrorist” organisations, it simply says “Free Palestine, victory for the resistance” You mention Ireland Martin, you mention “republicanism” that you have had to answer for over the years, You obviously think “Republicanism” and “terrorism” are one the same, for a guy bringing up folk who can”t find things on maps, perhaps you should go find words in the dictionary? was everyone in Ireland who was against British occupation a “terrorist” that’s what the grown man who called me terrorist when I was eight simply for wearing a Celtic strip thought. That’s who you sound like with your rant about maps. You have equated the words “Palestine” and “resistance” with terrorism, in the same rant as comparing republicanism to terrorism.
Well is every Irish person who was against British occupation a “terrorist” just because the BBC said so? Or would you admit that the news isn’t always accurate or fair in its reports? You just need to go read about Ballymurphy and the amount of innocent people called “Terrorist” and the 50 years it took them for a small measure of justice.
Or is that too complex a discussion for you? Too many variables and nothing to do with geography?
Agree 100% The GB? It makes me laugh just thinking of these sad little boys & big weans havin tae be in a gang tae feel big & think everyone respects them .. hilarious! They should shut up & grow up! Support the team only.