Yesterday we featured an early Celtic striker Henry (or Harry) McIlvenny and it’s fair to say that not too much was really known about the player, there were no photographs of him on The Celtic Wiki – a very unusual occurrence for any player who has ever played for the club – and there was even a debate about his christian name, with The Celtic Wiki and others insisting his christian name is Henry while his great grandson, who had contacted The Celtic Star, was telling us that his great granddad was actually called Harry.
Here’s how this all began, and this was the only available photograph of the former Celtic player until yesterday…
READ THIS…Celtic’s Forgotten Title Winner: H. McIlvenny – Harry or Henry?
Yesterday we looked into that, via a shared effort on Celtic Twitter, with the team from Celtic Wiki working with The Celtic Star to uncover what we could about Henry (or Harry) McIlvenny. First to clear up the name debate. It’s probably fair to say that it would be strange if The Celtic Wiki insisted on calling Cesar William McNeill. Everyone regards him as Billy. The same applies to Henry (or Harry) McIlvenny – it’s Henry on his birth certificate (which we found yesterday) but he was known as Harry. We’ll tell you more about what we uncovered yesterday but before that here’s David Potter’s article on Henry (or Harry) McIlvenny which was promised yesterday…
David Potter on Henry (or Harry) McIlvenny
Henry (or Harry) McIlvenny had a remarkable Celtic career. For one thing, it is difficult to find another player who actually joined Celtic three times! A few have done it twice – Tommy McInally, Bertie Auld, Willie Fernie, Charlie Nicholas and others, but three times is rare. He joined in September 1895, November 1896 and October 1904. In between times he played for a host of other clubs, notably Burnley, Belfast Celtic, Hamilton Accies (twice), St Bernard’s, Partick Thistle and Ayr. It is probably true to say that he played his best football for teams other than Celtic, but his heart was always at Parkhead – and he has set a family tradition!
*Here is a copy of Harry’s contract with Hamilton dated 16 June 1903, he re-joined Celtic on a free transfer at the end of that season.
The historian is often handicapped by the newspaper reports of the day. We often, in the 21st century, have our criticisms of the modern day Press, but they usually get the teams right! This cannot be guaranteed in the 1890s when the science of sports journalism was in its infancy. For example, in the infamous game at Arthurlie in January 1897, although other sources say that McIlvenny was playing and indeed scored for Celtic, The Scottish Sport , often regarded as the best source of the time, does not mention a McIlvenny in the team, but it then goes on to say that “McIlvany” (who does not appear in the team sheet either) scored for Celtic. Was this our Henry McIlvenny? Possibly, but we will never know for sure. It might have been better if he had NOT appeared in that awful game.
* Here’s a never published before photograph of Harry, with a team photo presumably from Hamilton and the medal he won. The medal was apparently sold back in 2013.
He first played for Celtic against Preston in September 1895 but by December he was allowed to go to Dumbarton on loan and then went to Burnley. His second coming was in November 1896, at the time when the strike issue came to a head. The balance of evidence was that he DID play at Arthurlie, and he certainly did suffer in the fall out and at the end of the 1896/97 season, he was on his way again.
His final Celtic incarnation came in 1904 when things were in a far better condition, and Henry played seven games in the 1904/05 season which of course led to the capture of the Championship in a play-off. Henry did not play in the play-off, but he did score a goal against Kilmarnock at Parkhead on Hogmanay 1904. He had several games at centre forward and some at inside left, including a game that had to be abandoned against Rangers at Ibrox on January 2 1905 because of crowd encroachment.
But by the end of the season the forward line had settled down to Bennett, McMenemy, Quinn, Somers and Hamilton, and Henry McIlvenny, although a useful player, was simply not good enough to break into that side. He did not do anything wrong, but he cannot really be blamed for returning to Hamilton Accies where he could be guaranteed a first team place.
He had a season with Hamilton and then another with Ayr before he finally retired in 1907. It would have been good to know more about him in his Celtic career, but he played only 11 times in competitive games. He died in 1934.
David Potter
Celtic Wiki Bhoys: I can’t match the Gorbals info up to any of the two Henry McIlvenny/McIlvannas* born around Glasgow in the 1870s. One was born in Port Glasgow in 1877, the other in Castlepark, Lanark in 74. The Port Glasgow Henry DID have Irish parents. (* I think that the reason I never found anything when I looked years ago is that the many spellings of McIlvaney make them very difficult to track down)… any information you can gather about Harry would really help. For instance, if any of his kids were born before 1920, I can get their birth certificate stratight away.
Celtic Wiki Bhoys: That’s all absolute gold, thanks. I’ve started to pull stuff together for them. This may not be for sharing with the family yet, but it looks like Margaret was his 2nd wife. His first (Jane McCartney) died in 1913. At least one of his children (Catherine) was Jane’s biological daughter, rather than Maggie’s. What’s 100% certain, though, is that his name is (officially at least) Henry.
* Hurray! Finally found his birth certificate (filed under McIvanney) Henry was born at 17 Hospital Street on 17 September 1876 to Henry and Mary (Kelly).
And Harry’s death record from 1934 (if the researcher from the Scottish League Player Records is correct) pic.twitter.com/DeNBcP7xxw
— Steve Fitzpatrick (@fitzpas) May 11, 2021
* Maybe we should have a closer look at the photograph of Harry…
* Then Highland Paddy helped out by digitally enhancing the photograph of the former Celtic player…
*When trying to find out more about Harry we asked for information about his wife and children. Harry was married twice, his first wife died at a tragically early age. Here is the photograph of Harry’s second wife Margaret (known as Maggie), again we sent that to Highland Paddy to digitally enhance.
“That is the only family pic we have to hand. That’s Harry’s wife, still waiting on name but that is her in the photo. I do know she was Irish.
“Harry was born in Gorbals, Abbotsinch place to an Irish Sea Captain and Irish Mother, near the suspension bridge n a short walk through the Green to Paradise. He was very friendly with Willie Maley, my extended family the McHardy’s have all the family treasures including two ming vases gifted to Harry n his Wife for his wedding.
“My uncle David McHardy used to work for the Express but sadly didnt pass much info on and the family hasn’t shared any photo’s or memorabilia. The McIlvenny family will do what they can to gather anything they can and are delighted such an article is being composed for Harry/Henry.
“Again, i can’t thank yourselves enough. It means everything to us to have him properly remembered,” John P Beaton (Harry’s Great GrandSon).
More from Harry’s Great Grandson..
Ma Great Grandpa attended Mass at St John’s in the Gorbals and the Cathedral on the Broomielaw, where I was married also. He was qualified boiler maker to trade and was also a well known bookmaker with a few sites, one on High Street.
His Father was a Ship’s Captain and was involved with ship salvage on the Clyde and Mersey and coastal waters around both islands. Dangerous work. And also had strong links to Old Ireland.
Some of his children on board a ship in relation to Henry’s Dad. That’s Cathy, Sadie and Mary, his daughters in the photo.
He was quite a character and loved his family and looked after them all really well. No doubt a colourful character n family and when they moved to Mount Florida he was nearer his pal Maley at Hazeldon and they both got to Mass at Holy Cross. A Parish the family hold dear for baptisms, funeral Mass and marriages
I was baptised there and first home was on Dixon Avenue.. A few family have played football for juniors and Holyrood, St, Pat’s and know folks from Maley to Cesar to Mike Jackson to Peter Goldie and Johnny Divers.
Cathy, Sadie and Mary, his daughters in the photo.
He was quite a character, loved his family and looked after them all really well.
A colourful character n family, when they moved to Mount Florida he was nearer his pal Maley at Hazeldon, both got to Mass at Holy Cross. pic.twitter.com/O0hgzb1Oqf
— The Celtic Star Editor (@CelticStarMag) May 11, 2021
But only one graced the Hoops. Henry Joseph McIlvenny
* A short intervention from Matt Corr…
Another ‘wee anecdote’ which may interest you is that Harry played against Celtic twice in that championship-winning season of 1904/05. He played for Partick Thistle in the opening game of the season in August, a 5-0 win for Celts at Meadowside, which I believe is on the site where the Glasgow Harbour flats are built. And then again in a 2-0 Celtic win at Parkhead in the semi-final of the Glasgow Cup the following month.
It’s been fascinating finding out about this gent today, whilst at the same time seeing the pride John took from watching the story as it developed.
I love how this story is coming together 24 hours after a chance letter from a family member to @CelticStarMag
Brilliant how supporters of Celtic and other clubs are pooling their knowledge and talent together to fill in the gaps and bring this to life.
Football for good indeed
— Matt Corr (@Boola_vogue) May 12, 2021
Henry final season at Celtic coincided with the beginning of another Celtic story, that of Alec McNair and that brings us on to this exciting news…
Look what’s arrived…David Potter’s new book, Alec McNair – Celtic’s Icicle… with two very special collage presentations at the start and end of the book, from @Celticcurio….click on any of these images to order a signed copy.
